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had the concealed guns, but if it was open, you were seeing what was coming. >> guest: right, when you came up on someone. vermont has no rules at all about that, but anyway, the -- >> host: the slave issue. >> guest: slaves also before the civil war, didn't have guns, and whites in the south, some of them began to see personal firearms as a means of defending themselves against slave rebelling, if they needed to. later on approaching the civil war, abolition a strong movement, abolitionists wanted to provide guns to no slavery and vice versa so they wanted to go to kansas to defend themselves against tax by their opponents. the ku klux klan and groups like that arose persecuting freed blacks in the south, and the blacks began to look for ways to defend themselves. the federal government tried to institute new state militias in the southern states, and blacks saw them as a way of self-defense. >> host: guns played a role in history. what was the legal understanding. when there were restrictions, did they consider that unconstitutional or one they thought as an urban area or city on the
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